"I love that you've brought this to attention. An extensive database of uncommon but resistant and hardy plants/foods could be developed and organized by climate. Ease of growth and processing should also be taken in to account. I will try to…"
A crash course in changing the world.
Money is such an outdated concept! Much like countries.
In this century, Money or more specifically 'Debt' is a major problem. Most this I refer to as issues, but money really is a problem no matter what way you look at it.
Many will argue money isn't evil and that it's people that misuse it or are corrupted by it. This sadly isn't so. The system we exist in is the problem, for as long as currency dominates our thought patterns we have an attachment. This creates an imprisonment psychologically and arguable spiritually. Can this problem be solved and how can we know for sure if currency is really out dated?
Firstly, let us look at the banking system and I'm going to pass this onto the Zeitgeist movement for the award winning doc**entary worth watching a few times in order to understand exactly how the system operates.
Upon understanding how currency is a problem, lets not look at how the human body functions. The human organism is a perpetual bio-chemical and bio-mechanical organism that exist on(in) multiple dimensions. So how does this complex being work? This being doesn't have currency . . . or does it? Actually the human body has something called ATP (Adenosine Triphosphate) which upon this bond being broken into ADP (Adenosine Diphosphate + Phosphate) creates energy. This the closest thing to a currency within the body. Why is the important to note as 'closest'? Well the human body has been so well designed that (Ignoring pathologies) most activities occur through it's brilliant design. For an example in order to help filter excess salt and water in the kidneys the body can increase the amount of salt excreted, water naturally wants to dilute (Osmosis) within the body and so follows the salt, this action doesn't actually take and energy (ATP) it is a secondary effect. In fact the Sodium-Potassium Pump is major use of ATP, but this one action actually causes a knock on of hundreds of other actions that don't require energy - all through design!*
It gets even better when one looks at how energy is made in the body as it is almost sustainable indefinitely with the correct inputs. Which in itself are also sustainable e.g. Farming creates food for use to eat, combined with clean water allows use to maintain the farm, also the farming itself is a form of exercise keeping the body healthy thus we can ascertain the cycle we mimic in life is a copy of what happens in our body [Yes we should farm more ^_^]
Why is this all worth mentioning, well my hero Jacque Fresco has actually done this and combine his engineering knowledge to enhance humanity but deigning a new system that surpa**** currency. Based a lot on the human body! By designing out the problems one can actively improve efficiency. A lot of people don't know that Nikola Tesla was so successful because all he kept doing was improving everything, each step on the way. The Venus Project goes that one giant leap into the future - those sci-fi fans of star trek will be impressed as it goes even further than the system they had as your see when you start the fun discovery of this incredible system.
HAPPY READING
*Please note this is a heavily simplified version I'd recommend your own research into the human body sincerely it is fascinating and brilliant.
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Comment by Benjamin Michael Jones on April 26, 2010 at 11:17pm
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Quote:Again though, this will probably come about regardless of TVP if it is beneficial and feasible to do so.
Agreed.
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Quote:It’s faith when it is not tried. Usually, before endeavoring to do something, there is period where it is tested first. When there are no tests, things can sometimes end badly. That’s why governments have agencies like the FDA. When I am told something cannot be tested, I have absolutely no faith in it, especially when it is my own belief that it can be tested, and that the results of such a test would prove to be contrary to the proponents.
Agree with you that all systems should be tested [if possible] in regards to the Third Reich, Hitler's methodology was totally unique, if it was indeed Hitler's and had no prior testing. Elements of the vehicle may have been used in past situations, but the overall approach (having henchmen fight to please the furher) seems one of a kind. Hence why i question it because as i look at it the wh*** layout sometimes doesn't make sense logically - if human nature is to compete why did these men not compete with Hitler, if they did it was hidden, if not Hitler must have discovered something profound about the human mind, he was clearly able to utilise it in his methodology. Moving on to the idea of the FDA i must say that concerns me that you trust completely this source as it may claim independence but like any institution can and probably has been influenced by either governmental pressures or perhaps bribery from commercial giants - even then data that i available is not much good to the man in the street, so it would be very easy for them to confuse or mislead the population into thought patterns, in this instance food related. Although i will admit that as an idealist i try to have faith, it is knocked regularly and i to search for evidence to prove to me it's claims. TVP appears to me because i visualised the thought process of JF in order to see how he came up with his methodology - it made logical sense in the big picture, but in some of details issues arise hence the discussion.
Once i can reach a conclusion on it - good or bad i can either move on or continue with the plan until a better one presents itself.
Quote:So this infamous capital resources would probably never come about[…]” What? For any project you must have an existing capital resource. If you don’t then you will not have an end product. Progression is dependent upon the extent of available resources. Insufficient resources means retarded progression. When surplus resources (the resources available after the cost in terms of resources has been factored into producing said resources) drop, then the next cycle of progress is stunted. When it drops to no net gain (i.e. no surplus) progress is going to halt altogether. TVP operates on the belief that surplus resources will always be sufficient to maintain progress. Forecasted trends, particularly as applied to energy resources, do not agree with this belief. That’s why faith is such a big part of the TVP.
At this stage I think i was very tired as i am now, but i also think i've read more of your arguments on this and am getting a better picture. Would you be able to recommend some reading to allow me to further my understanding and thus be able to see if i can counter this point properly.
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Quote:You’re right, it is speculative. What’s even more speculative is that cooperation is created by or sustainable within TVP. I would like to speculate that what you mention here is achievable without TVP.
Agreed, however at present it appears to be one of the strongest vehicles to at least push the idea, which is important because if (Well being realistic 'I will') fail in this life time, each generation will eventually soften to the idea, then in say 20 generations what is propose here will seem like common sense. What I see is something like TVP creating a platform, and perhaps with some like yourself Iron we could redesign a new implementation solution TVP Mark II maybe although i'd wager you'd hate that name to many links to optimism ha!
Quote:My concerns are not about space exploration, nor is it that technology will progress. My concern is the belief of many that technology progression is a self-perpetuating existence, and the way that people operate based upon that belief.
This comment concerns me, is existence not motivated self-perpetuation? If not we would not be here and it makes logical sense our technology would simply follow our main directive in life biologically. Although it has a strange way of doing it at times it does open up the world to new philosophies with regards to technology. Should it aid our self perpetuation or provide just entertainment or just make our life easier not longer? Interesting debate that one - you can start that on a link Iron otherwise this will never thread will never end heheh!
Quote:I am naturally skeptical with the term “free energy”. I don’t need to be convinced that it’s BS… I automatically assume that. They who propose these things need to prove that it’s not. I seriously doubt that such technology has not spread if it existed because oil companies are kidnapping people. More likely it’s because it’s either faulty science or a fraud. If I’m wrong, and free energy devices are just waiting to be used, then this wh*** debate is largely irrelevant and I might as well go buy a Hummer.
Scepticism is healthy, however if we go into 'string theory' parameters and even the more simplistic argument of magnetism and electrify - these two forces are powerfully interconnected one would expect there to be a source of energy, perhaps not free, but close to. Why would you want Hummer? I'd so want one of these puppies:
http://icepice.blogspot.com/2010/01/top-10-most-spectacular-concept...
Quote:The reason why I am responding to this is not because I’m afraid that the Venus Project is actually going to happen (I have 100% confidence that it won’t), but because I am concerned that people will read about these kinds of utopia projects and assume that everything will be ok, and that if things get bad, then there are movements like TVP just waiting in the wings. That to me is false hope. There may be solutions out there, but utopian fantasies are not solutions. They are just that: fantasies. Of course, you could say that’s my opinion. One person’s fantasy is another’s reality… sort of like Santa Claus or the Easter bunny. I’m not saying they aren’t real, just that there is a large lack of evidence that they are.
Y'know despite my clear enthusiasm for TVP, it is more the concept i'm a fan of. It screams to me freedom from what we do as a norm today, which to me i question is the way we live today normal? Is there a better way of doing things. I believe yes, however, my purpose is not to strive for a better society, society must do that on it's own. I agree that TVP probably won't be the initiator it's been about 70 odd years with no success, however aside from your pragmatic arguments about resources there is still much unknown about the human consciousness and this is something that will probably reveal many answer we seek and solutions we have not yet conceived. I also agree these utopia project won't succeed, thankfully due to your type, because a sense of realism is needed and as harsh as reality is at times, to solve every problem would remove need for my existence. It does however allow us to contemplate the philosophical concepts of life and how it should or shouldn't proceed. You last words ring with truth, and coincide with the argument brought forth of perception and that your perceived universe is different to mine, Thank God! Or in your case perhaps not, depending on your . . . perspective heheh and yes i would agree that tests would need to be done in order to see if there is evidence to support these projects. So the questions I leave for you to help me with Iron are:
Do you help humanity or simply reason with them?
Do you strive for a better humanity or accept that at every given moment humanity is in perfection with it's development?
If you were to redesign society how would you begin? What would you do differently?
I could ask more but not tonight I am just too damn tired! ^_^
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I shall try and research some tonight Resilient communities! Perhaps something is forging behind the scenes. hehe!
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