"I love that you've brought this to attention. An extensive database of uncommon but resistant and hardy plants/foods could be developed and organized by climate. Ease of growth and processing should also be taken in to account. I will try to…"
A crash course in changing the world.
Quantum Trade Rings
The creative solution I think will make a huge change in how we
use money in the future is the trade system that Panamericana
presented in two of his posts:
"
Trade Rings
The problem with trade is that if you and I want to trade
we both need to have something the other one wants and
would trade for what we have to offer.
This problem can be solved if the trading is done not
between two persons as it would be expected but among
a ring of persons.
Consider this:
Person A provides Web Design services and needs a Gardening Book.
Person B provides Graphic Design services and needs some
Web Design services .
No go.
But if we introduce a 3rd person...
Person C has a Gardening Book and needs some Graphic Design services.
Person A provides the Web Design services to Person B,
Person B provides the Graphic Design services to Person C
Person C gives the Gardening Book to person A.
The ring is closed.
If members of a network have a Wish List and a Gift List,
and a barter program runs through them finding the possible rings
the possibilities that what one wants is not available to be given
and the possibilities that what one has is not wished to be gotten
are reduced drastically.
It can be seen as a synchronic pay-it-forward ring, a pay-it-forward-now ring.
Wish/Gift lists can include products, services, futures(promises), even currencies.
Of course that if Person A has currency and wants a compass and Person B wants currency and has an extra compass they could just trade directly, that would be more efficient one would think. But how many people have their needs satisfied in the transaction? Only two.
What if:
Person A gives the 50 Credits to Person C
Person C gives a blender to Person D
Person D fixes a lawn mower for Person E
Person E gives a water filter to Person F
Person F gives 50 Credits to Person B
and Person B gives the compass to Person A.
Person A gets the Compass and Person B gets the Currency,
but six people have their needs satisfied instead of two.
These trade rings not only make possible trades that
would be impossible between two persons, as in the first example,
they also allow for trades that are already possible to be arranged
in a manner so as to enable other trades that would be impossible
even using the ring method, thus maximizing the amount
of needs in the community that are satisfied.
The rings can be arranged by members, but if a network has hundreds of
members and each member has several items in their wish/gift lists
it is impractical for a person to deal with such amount of data.
Thanks to computers, that's not a problem,
wish/gift lists can be searched by a program for the largest possible ring,
making this system scalable to any network size."
"
The Quantum Bazaar,
A Transactional Routing Engine
A regular computer performs one computation at a time,
like say 28 + 28 = 56, a quantum computer performs all possible computations at the same time, in this case lets say all possible 2 digit
sums, all ten thousand of them.
A quantum trade routing engine would perform all possible transactions
at the same time, it would look for a circular transactional network as
long as possible, satisfying as many wishes as possible.
Using a database of the wishes and gifts if I tell it I want a Nokia N95 the program can then ask the database:
_____
Who has a Nokia N95 in their GiftList?
>Group 1(Person A, Person B, Person C)
Whats on their WishList?
>Items list 1.
Who has those items in their GiftList?
>Group 2 (Person D, Person E, Person F)
Is there any possible transaction routing in which the wishes of
one of the members of Group 1 are satisfied by one or more members of Group 2 and in which the wishes of Group 2
are satisfied by one or more items in my GiftList?
>Routings Set(Routing 1, Routing 2, Routing 3)
Who else has the items in Group 2 WishList?
>Group 3 (Person G, Person H, Person I)
Is there any possible transaction routing in which the wishes of
one of the members of Group 1 are satisfied by one or more members of Group 2, in which the wishes of the involved member(s)
of Group 2 are satisfied by one or more items in Group 3 GiftList
and in which the wishes of the involved members of Group 3
can be satisfied by one o more of the items in my GiftList?
____
And so on until the answer is no,
then you use the longest one of the last routing set.
Having the members involved approve the proposed
transactional circle, if one or more involved members don't
approve, propose the the largest after that one and so on.
This way you make all transactions that can happen now,
happen now. An engine like that would outcompete Craigslist
and Ebay by far, what would had been a single transaction
can end up being a 10 to 100 transactional circle,
superempowering the network of persons using it."
What makes this system stand apart is that it not only
applies technology to facilitate trade,
but the fact that the transactional routing engine
allows for exponential improvement in the capital circulation speed.
use money in the future is the trade system that Panamericana
presented in two of his posts:
"
Trade Rings
The problem with trade is that if you and I want to trade
we both need to have something the other one wants and
would trade for what we have to offer.
This problem can be solved if the trading is done not
between two persons as it would be expected but among
a ring of persons.
Consider this:
Person A provides Web Design services and needs a Gardening Book.
Person B provides Graphic Design services and needs some
Web Design services .
No go.
But if we introduce a 3rd person...
Person C has a Gardening Book and needs some Graphic Design services.
Person A provides the Web Design services to Person B,
Person B provides the Graphic Design services to Person C
Person C gives the Gardening Book to person A.
The ring is closed.
If members of a network have a Wish List and a Gift List,
and a barter program runs through them finding the possible rings
the possibilities that what one wants is not available to be given
and the possibilities that what one has is not wished to be gotten
are reduced drastically.
It can be seen as a synchronic pay-it-forward ring, a pay-it-forward-now ring.
Wish/Gift lists can include products, services, futures(promises), even currencies.
Of course that if Person A has currency and wants a compass and Person B wants currency and has an extra compass they could just trade directly, that would be more efficient one would think. But how many people have their needs satisfied in the transaction? Only two.
What if:
Person A gives the 50 Credits to Person C
Person C gives a blender to Person D
Person D fixes a lawn mower for Person E
Person E gives a water filter to Person F
Person F gives 50 Credits to Person B
and Person B gives the compass to Person A.
Person A gets the Compass and Person B gets the Currency,
but six people have their needs satisfied instead of two.
These trade rings not only make possible trades that
would be impossible between two persons, as in the first example,
they also allow for trades that are already possible to be arranged
in a manner so as to enable other trades that would be impossible
even using the ring method, thus maximizing the amount
of needs in the community that are satisfied.
The rings can be arranged by members, but if a network has hundreds of
members and each member has several items in their wish/gift lists
it is impractical for a person to deal with such amount of data.
Thanks to computers, that's not a problem,
wish/gift lists can be searched by a program for the largest possible ring,
making this system scalable to any network size."
"
The Quantum Bazaar,
A Transactional Routing Engine
A regular computer performs one computation at a time,
like say 28 + 28 = 56, a quantum computer performs all possible computations at the same time, in this case lets say all possible 2 digit
sums, all ten thousand of them.
A quantum trade routing engine would perform all possible transactions
at the same time, it would look for a circular transactional network as
long as possible, satisfying as many wishes as possible.
Using a database of the wishes and gifts if I tell it I want a Nokia N95 the program can then ask the database:
_____
Who has a Nokia N95 in their GiftList?
>Group 1(Person A, Person B, Person C)
Whats on their WishList?
>Items list 1.
Who has those items in their GiftList?
>Group 2 (Person D, Person E, Person F)
Is there any possible transaction routing in which the wishes of
one of the members of Group 1 are satisfied by one or more members of Group 2 and in which the wishes of Group 2
are satisfied by one or more items in my GiftList?
>Routings Set(Routing 1, Routing 2, Routing 3)
Who else has the items in Group 2 WishList?
>Group 3 (Person G, Person H, Person I)
Is there any possible transaction routing in which the wishes of
one of the members of Group 1 are satisfied by one or more members of Group 2, in which the wishes of the involved member(s)
of Group 2 are satisfied by one or more items in Group 3 GiftList
and in which the wishes of the involved members of Group 3
can be satisfied by one o more of the items in my GiftList?
____
And so on until the answer is no,
then you use the longest one of the last routing set.
Having the members involved approve the proposed
transactional circle, if one or more involved members don't
approve, propose the the largest after that one and so on.
This way you make all transactions that can happen now,
happen now. An engine like that would outcompete Craigslist
and Ebay by far, what would had been a single transaction
can end up being a 10 to 100 transactional circle,
superempowering the network of persons using it."
What makes this system stand apart is that it not only
applies technology to facilitate trade,
but the fact that the transactional routing engine
allows for exponential improvement in the capital circulation speed.
Views: 41
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Comment by Michele Baron on April 18, 2010 at 6:34pm
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thanks for reposting this, Sarah
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Comment by Michael Keats on April 18, 2010 at 6:34pm
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sounds like a viable, if perhaps a bit complicated, system. if you get something set up, I'd be interested to participate
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Comment by A.V.Koshy on April 18, 2010 at 7:12pm
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go here michael keats and join http://delta-team.ning.com
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Comment by Patricio Buenrostro-Gilhuys on April 18, 2010 at 7:26pm
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I´m very curious to see this trade rings in action
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thanks A.V.
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post your wish list etc and then wait patricio
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Comment by Arne Sostack on April 19, 2010 at 12:20pm
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Well, yes and no. I don't want to discourage you from experimenting, but to me, the system stopped working when you (or he) said that the system would
Having the members involved approve the proposed
transactional circle, if one or more involved members don't
approve, propose the the largest after that one and so on.
This would make a 100 person chain ridiculously slow, especially if the participants are spread across the world, and thus wouldn't be online at the same time.
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Ok, I'll accept that, although I'm not sure the math holds.
Next argument, what would happen if one party out of 100 were to bail out, or deliver a worthless service/product? Noone gets their stuff? Only those who already got their stuff gets theirs? With a one to one transaction, the risk of this happening would be much less.
For a service delivered, it'd be difficult to demand it back. If I'm delivering a service into the chain, would I want to deliver until I was reasonably sure everyone else would complete their stuff? Would anyone else?
Like I said, by all means experiment, but I see a lot of trouble with the solution as is. Prove me wrong, please! :)
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Comment by Shakwei Mbindyo on April 19, 2010 at 1:35pm
-
Interesting. Any takes on a solution that would work for country to country trade?
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Wait.
Person A has an apple, wants a cuc**ber
Person B has an orange, wants an apple
Person C has a cuc**ber, wants an orange
We have a ring.
Person A gives his apple to Person B
Person B doesn't give his orange to Person C
Person C isn't getting an orange, and so isn't giving his cuc**ber to Person A
Person A isn't getting a cuc**ber.
Person B now has an orange and an apple.
Insert as many people in the chain as you want, if one person breaks the chain, he wins, and the chain loses. I'd say the risk of one person deciding to cash in increases at least linearly with the number of people you add to the chain.
A reputation system might help, but I'd wager there are still heaps of frauds on ebay, and see no reason there wouldn't be the same amount here, Even worse, if there are 100 people in a chain, they're probably going to feel even less responsibility because they're not so much hurting an individual as some muddy group of strangers.
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